Apparently the same user has also used the User names Anti-Zog[?], Niggardly and JamesERay[?]
Note: some people believe that recent edits made by 131.247.157.27 (/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special:Contributions&target=131.247.157.27) were also made by Zog prior to logging in. (This is very likely, as this IP address was used for Zog's most recent edits. --Brion 02:48 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC))
Also note that material has largely been consolidated here (badly) from other locations.
The issue has also been raised on the mailing list:
I don't see how this is vandalism, really. Patently offensive, sure, but there are plenty of other wikipedia pages that are like that while still being informative. Can't the article just be edited instead of deleted? Just my $0.02 -- Wapcaplet
I am requesting that User:Zog be banned. Within Zog's first 24-hours, Zog wrote the following:
Also, Zog's user name is offensive. See: ZOG. Kingturtle 04:20 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC) P.S. An hour after 131.247.157.27 wrote in Capitalism that Capitalism was obviously developed by the jews for the jews in order to further the goals of the ZOG machine, User:Zog was created. Kingturtle 05:40 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)
I do not have a problem with ZOG. Granted, the term "Zionist Occupation Goverment" might be offensive to some, but the user is not a vandal. In regards to the above points:
He's "not a vandal"?? How about this edit from Zog, also in History of the Jews in the Soviet Union:
I mean, come on. If this isn't vandalism then what is?
Hi Zog. Please understand that although Wikipedia welcomes contributors, nakedly racist or offensive edits are not permitted here. If you have difficulty in understanding this, please say so and we will explain it to you. You will find that this is a friendly and welcoming community. However, we will not tolerate racism or vandalism. Tannin 08:29 Apr 28, 2003 (UTC)
Dear Zog.
A number of Wikipedians have requested that you be banned. I have moved related conversations to User talk:Zog/ban, which I invite you to read and respond to.
I urge you to take the time to consider people's words carefully before responding. I know from personal experience how unpleasant it is to be threatened with a ban, and I know how angry it can make one feel. However, flying off the handle is unlikely to help!
If you feel that you would like an "advocate" to represent you, please feel free to contact me, in private, at wikipedia@myreddice.co.uk.
Yours faithfully,
Martin
Zog, why are you referring to yourself in the third person? -- sannse 17:11 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)
Tannin and Danny repeatedly delete an article which several people have contributed to for absolutely no reason. After being asked to provide sufficient documentation for the information, I did so, without so much as a response from the two users (except for them deleting the article once again. Zog
The entire edit history for User:Zog appears to consist of nothing but racist diatribes. - Hephaestos 18:15 Apr 28, 2003 (UTC)
I might be excessively conspiratorial, but I'm under the suspicion that Zog is Lir/Vera out for revenge. Is anyone else? 172
As for the name Zog, see my comments on the Rebel page. In the TMC debate, it was discussed how certain names obviously would not be allowed, like "gasjews" or "killfagsdead." ZOG is just such a name. Zog denies having known it, but he actually used it in this capacity in an earlier draft of the article. See my comments on this in the mailing list and the Johnny Rebel page. Can this name be removed? Danny
Why should we even bother to dignify this user by responding to him/her? Remove this crap right away. 172
I understand that some people attack this article because they believe its a POV article. While I disagree, I am open to people's changes to this article. Yet, there have been no attempts to do so, just requests to have it deleted. If there is a problem with the article, then make changes to it, don't mindlessly delete it because you are too lazy to make the neccesary changes. -- Zog
Zog, the first thing you will need to do is stop deleting people's comments on talk pages. Leaving other people's comments intact is one of the very few really firm rules around here.
Secondy, you will have to persuade people that you really do have something useful to contribute to this community. There is, no doubt, a case to be made for including material on the subjects you seem to be interested in. However, given that you have already posted blatantly racist things several times, and not bothered to post anything that wasn't, at least in part, racist or offensive, I don't really see how you can repair your reputation. I think your only real option is to find another web site, where your views are more welcome. Tannin 00:40 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)
Hmmm, the very fact that my "opinions" are not welcome here probably reinforces my need to stay here. I will not skew information to make it more "welcome" to your obviously biased ears. Race seems to be such an overly-sensitive issue here in America that any mention of it causes one to be referred to as a "racist". - Zog
If we were offended with named like Throbbing Monster Cock, I can assure you that Zog is no tribute to the former King of Albania. In far right neo-Nazi circles, it is an anti-semitic initialisation for Zionist Occupation Government, a conspiracy theory which alleges that a cabal of Jews control the US government. I find that highly offensive. Danny
??? Wow, how do YOU know so much about this conspiracy theory? I'm sure you could take any three initials of one's name and make it into an initialisation for something (which you obviously have). I was unaware of this 'ZOG', and you apparently need to spend less time obsessing over conspiracy theories (as well creating them) and actually contribute something useful Zog
In my school, "Zog" was a derisive term for a geek. We geeks used to regularly get zogged out in front of a good computer game in the "Zog B's" (that's computer building). Further, I note that "Throbbing Monster Cock"'s username was changed to the acronym TMC - this initialisation being considered inoffensive. Danny - I think your opinion of Zog's edits is colouring your opinion of hir username.
You can dislike me, that is fine. However, deleting every article simply because it is written by an author who you dislike is EXTREMELY biased. Rudyard Kipling was an avid racist, but I don't recall censoring his material, nor do we ignore his valuable contributions that he has made throughout his career. ) - Zog
Acronym Finder lists "Zionist Occupational Government" as the only entry for "zog" [1] (http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?Acronym=ZOG&String=exact&p=ol), and a Google search for "zog" and "jewish" turns up many predictable results. Combined with this user's contributions (/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special:Contributions&target=Zog), it's reasonable for Danny to make that assumption. Now, whether or not Zog intended this, I can't say. -- Stephen Gilbert 01:09 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)
I have found this in the original draft of Johnny Rebel, in which Zog quote David Duke[?] waxing poetic about Johnny Rebel.
Johnny Rebel is currently home to an edit war. Apparently, ol' JR is a racist musician. User:Zog is the originator of the article. Many Wikipedians find it offensive, while others are demanding sources for the information provided, being unable to find any through their own searches. -- Stephen Gilbert 01:27 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)
My opinion, is that references to the "Johnny Rebel Band" and "the gay pornography industry" have no place in an article about Johnny Rebel . Danny fails to realize this and continues to vandalize the site without citing reasons for him doing so
My opinion, copied from the relevant talk page: If some totally obscure singer writes a whole bunch of songs with racist titles, in my opinion they are not appropriate for an article here, as it seems to amount to getting a racist message on Wikipedia by stealth. A small sample of his titles should be sufficient. The whole list is unnecessary, and in my opinion, Zog is giving the whole list for entirely dubious reasons. His posting history shows the truth. -- Evercat
... Jaknouse, you're right, your comments ARE highly POV. zog
And so are some of yours. Please review NPOV. --cprompt
While some of my work can be considered POV (although it has all been edited if it has), I have never gone so far as to ignorantly say that a group of people are "pinheads" and that learning more about a subject will cause you indigestion zog
ZOG, FYI, I restrict my POV statements to talk pages. I am very careful about NPOV in the articles. jaknouse 03:44 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)
My policy with regard to Zog, Nazis, KKK, and other racists--do NOT give them a forum. Any forum. I will not engage them in dialogue because that gives them legitimacy. I will not engage a user who calls himself "Zionist Occupation Government" (meaning the "Jew-dominated" government of the US), legitimacy by arguing with him. I will not even give him legitimacy by selecting what is usable from his additions. Chaco War, yes, but History of Cuba, no? No. They add it--I erase it. Danny
What's wrong with these edits?
"The war also had immediate political ramifications for Bolivia, as the (perceived) mis-management of the war by Salamanca led his own generals to capture him, and force him to step down from presidency."
"Many middle-class Bolivians were humiliated by Bolivia's quick military defeating during the Chaco War which led to a mass movement away from the traditional order known as the "Generacion del Chaco", which was epitomized by the MNR-led Revolution of 1952."
172 must be wrong, because I strongly agree with him. Ril
I'm sure Danny would agree that everything Zog has added is not useless. The above does not look out-of-bounds to me and I would have never given that edit a second thought had I not been aware that Zog was in an edit war. --mav
zog
Maybe its not a strategy, its probably best if the wiki stop referring to "trolls" and "vandals" and considering such people to be part of a conspiracy to destroy the wiki. Ril
My policy with regard to Nazis, KKK, and other racists--do NOT give them a forum. Any forum. I will not engage them in dialogue because that gives them legitimacy. I will not engage a user who calls himself "Zionist Occupation Government" (meaning the "Jew-dominated" government of the US), legitimacy by arguing with them. I will not even give them legitimacy by selecting what is usable from their additions. Chaco War, yes, but History of Cuba, no? No. They add it--I erase it. Danny
If I may sum up the case for the "prosecution"?
Zog has made a number of edits to articles that are not appropriate for wikipedia because:
These edits were made between 08:12 on the 28th of April and early on the 19th of April. The affected articles included History of Cuba, Capitalism, History of the United States, Johnny Rebel and History of the Jews in the Soviet Union.
A further issue is Zog's username, which Kingturtle and Danny feel is an initialism for "Zionist Occupation Goverment", which is an offensive term. See also: wikipedia:no offensive usernames, ZOG
Finally, in one instance, Zog deleted the following comment by 172 on talk:Johnny Rebel - "I totally concur. Why should we even bother to dignify this user by responding to him/her? Remove this crap right away.". Zog also deleted some critical comments on this entry.
I will simply quote Jimbo Wales: "I'm satisfied, and this user should be banned." Why hasn't he been banned already? Danny
Brion, do you have the authority to ban user:zog on user:Jimbo's behalf? Tiles 02:50 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)
He just uploaded this picture of a monkey (/wiki/Image:Adam.jpg). He then linked to the image from civil rights activist Rosa Parks. I don't see how his behaviour is improving. Ban now. -- Evercat 01:35 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)
Ya know, 10 minutes ago I would've been prepared to defend Zog, but this is getting ridiculous. Zog, let it rest already! Wikipedia is about cooperating, and if you're going to get in an edit war with everyone who finds issues with your contributions, you're not helping anyone. I vote for ban, if the edit/revert wars don't stop. -- Wapcaplet
This is not even debatable. Zog's comments are racist, partisan, offensive and illegal in some coutries where this website is accessible. -- David Stewart[?]
I have decided to change my "offensive" name and comply to whatever facist PC demands you guys have BaboonMouth[?]
Remove yourself from the wikipedia. There must be a developer on line by now, why hasn't this character been banned? Tiles 02:45 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)
From Wikipedia:Upload log
07:14 Apr 30, 2003 BaboonMouth uploaded "Adam.jpg" (Rosa Parks) 07:13 Apr 30, 2003 BaboonMouth uploaded "Howling_Babboon_Sideview.jpg" (MLK)The exact same images as uploaded before by "Zog" ... I believe they have now been deleted by JohnOwens --TimmyD 07:26 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)
I've left what's at user:anti-Zog[?]. It's POV, but that's not an issue for user pages. It doesn't contain personal attacks on wikipedians, or foul language, and it's out of the article namespace. So might as well keep it, I figure. You never know, it might encourage Zog to leave. Martin
Google returned 34,300 Zog sites with none of the words jew, jewish, zion, or zionist. The text in each of the following sample links is a direct paste from the web page:
I could add scores of other interesting uses of the term ZOG. Yes, it's a politically charged acronym, but it is also the name of the mascot of a fifth grade elementary school class and the name of more than one well known programming language.
Let's be less hasty making these judgments. Arthur 18:24 May 1, 2003 (UTC)
User:Niggardly goes right for the nigger (word) page, and "protests" the use "of this word in an offensive manner", shortly after User:BaboonMouth[?] made his latest attempt at contribution. Gee, I wonder if there might be a connection. -- John Owens
Could be. Personally I don't care - I'll carry on keeping the good edits, fixing the bad, and reverting the ugly. This keeps things simple.
If Zog comes back under another username and behaves wonderfully, fine. If he leaves forever, that's fine too. If he vandalise pages, then he'll be reverted. I really don't care any which way, save that there should be a record of the discussions somewhere - hence this (30K long) page. Martin
Hi Martin, Just thought I'd explain why I blanked User:JamesERay[?]. As far as I understood things, if someone has been banned then that means that they can no longer contribute. If JamesERay/Zog has been banned then anything he adds to the Wikipedia should be removed, regardless of whether it is in an article or a User page or anything. If you really think it should stay then fair enough, I just don't think we should be sending the message to this person that they can keep coming back and littering the place with their rubbish. Cheers, Ams80 11:19 May 2, 2003 (UTC)
For the record, having this user on Wikipedia makes me extremely uncomfortable, even more so because people (e.g. Martin) seem to be willing to give him a fair chance. Understand that if you do so, you are also discouraging anyone who isn't a white Christian from being here. I shouldn't have to deal with this shit in order to edit an encyclopedia. It leaves me extremely rattled. Graft
I agree. Perhaps it's time to go to Wikipedia-l to discuss how to resolve the problems. For now, I'll be reverting their racist POV contributions every so often. The Anome 14:16 May 2, 2003 (UTC)
I agree also, and will help out with the reversions. Tannin 14:21 May 2, 2003 (UTC)
Not to be a conspiracy theorist or anything (I'm not much for conspiracies), but does anybody find it odd that the only person defending this vile "zog" character is Martin, whose major contributions are on Jewish ethnocentrism??? Just curious. 172
Search Encyclopedia
|
Featured Article
|