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Talk:Main Page Archive 4

Hard to believe the Leonids weren't up on the main page...if somebody with authority to change it happens by soon, it might be worth adding them.

Done. Good for a couple days at least. --mav

To all wikipedians: Happy New Year 2003!!

Sincerely yours, [[User:AntonioMartin|AntonioMartin

Could we add Oil spill off Spanish coast? - Montréalais

Done. "One is happy to be of service, as the great Andrew Martin used to say." --Ed Poor

We need Homeland Security Bill[?] Lir 08:56 Nov 20, 2002 (UTC)

Add a link to whatever foreign wiki happens to have the most entries. Does anyone else have a suspicion that foreign wikis are eventually going to become a really good way to learn a language? 129.186.80.116[?] 11:45 Nov 20, 2002 (UTC)

The Swedish wikipedia is active, please add a link. // Dan Koehl

Much apologies for not having an interlanguage link for the Swedish Wikipedia. We were trying to limit interlanguage links on the Main Page to active Wikipedias and seemed to have missed the Swedish one. This is probably my fault and I do apologize. --mav

May I suggest adding "rabies" to "in the news"? We have not had the disease here in UK for almost exactly 100 years, but some chap just died of it in Scotland. GrahamN 04:47 Nov 25, 2002 (UTC)

The Americans got antibiotic resistance listed so its only fair. Good for at least a few days. --mav 04:55 Nov 25, 2002 (UTC)

Thank you GrahamN 00:27 Nov 26, 2002 (UTC)

Might add United States Department of Homeland Security to current events dml

Done. In the future please make sure an item you want on the Main Page is already mentioned on the Current events or dead celebs page before you ask. --mav 01:51 Nov 26, 2002 (UTC)

Hi mav, the link to Chinese Wikipedia is old, would you like to change it to zh.wikipedia.org? thanks.--Ghyll 16:54 Nov 28, 2002 (UTC)

Done. Alos changed the links for other wikipedias that have recently moved, and removed two no longer very recent deaths. --Scipius 17:29 Nov 28, 2002 (UTC)

Can we add a text like "Please use the sandbox if you just want to experiment" to the first paragraph? My experience with my own wiki is that the sandbox is used if its purpose is clearly explained, which is very good for newbies to avoid breaking articles. But right now the sandbox link is hidden among many, and the link name is not intuitive enough to make it useful. --Eloquence

http://zh.wikipedia.org - please add to other languages

-fonzy

It has been on the Main Page for some time now. --mav

"Thanksgiving" should read "American Thanksgiving" or some such. I had Thanksgiving a month and a half ago. - Montréalais

And I not at all... ;-) Do we put other festivals & celebrations on the front page? -- Tarquin

No - but I don't see why it would hurt to have them on the Main Page for a day or two. There is plenty of room on the This day in history line after the date. --mav

please add to main:

Wikipedia:Wikipedians_resources

-fonzy

Wikipedia:Help desk is already listed. --mav

It's not the same thing -- the page I gave gives a list of Wikipædians resources so you know who to ask. That help-desk is mostly general.

As I point out on the resources talk page, it has the potential to be useful. Unfortunately, you are not likely to be taken seriously if you don't invest a certain minimum effort in your sentences. I count > 11 spelling errors / typos in the above sentence .. --Eloquence

1)How do you know i dont have learning difficulties?

I'm sure you can do better. "Difficulties" is a rather, well, difficult word, compared to "the", don't you think? And you got that one right. Just read your sentences a few times before saving, I know you didn't because you replied fairly quickly. --Eloquence

I was making a point and i do have things wrong with me, like NF and AS. - Fonzy

We're trying to keep editor links to a minumum on the front page -- link from Wikipedia:Utilities instead -- Tarquin

Fair enough. I'm not even saying that people are right for not trying to get your point if it is not expressed well, I'm just saying that it will happen. One of the first lessons in school is that "people who can't spell right can't think right", and many have taken this in as gospel. Try to work on your edits patiently before saving them. I know you can do that. Nobody will criticize you if you take more time for your edits than other people. --Eloquence

i am not acusing you of it but where ever youg ot that rule from, i would like to rip up, i can thnk perfectly well. I know more than most ppl in my class. My main problem is expressing my self, in writing and speach.

There are plenty of people out there who are carelss typists, but we should make allowances for someone who has difficulty typing -- this is a wiki, we can clean up after each other. Dyslexics are, on average, of higher IQ. and Mav, one of our most prolific contributors has lousy spelling ;) -- Tarquin 14:08 Dec 2, 2002 (UTC)

Since you added Thanksgiving, please add Saint Nicholas, which is celebrated in many European countries on Dec 5 and Dec 6. Hopefully, we'll get some info on the different traditions. --Eloquence

This is exactly why I was against mentioning thanksgiving on the main page -- at what point do we draw the line? the catholic calendar has a saint on every day ... -- Tarquin

Well, Saint Nicholas is not strictly a Catholic thing. Many Protestants have adopted it, and in the Netherlands it's still as big as Christmas. I think it's a reasonably large festivity to be included, and getting it some exposure might help us to learn about the different ways it is celebrated internationally. --Eloquence

Done. I thought you were an Admin already Eloquence... Anyway, I obviously don't see any harm in having relevant and timely links to holidays on the Main Page. The This day in history line is usually largely blank and lonely. Interested people do have to remind Admins about this and they shouldn't get mad when we fail to read their minds about what to list and when. --mav

Nah, I'm just a developer, not a sysop. Thanks for adding the link. It's a bit sad that we have to protect the Main Page -- it could use some wiki love .. --Eloquence

Visit Main Page/Temp and have fun. :) --mav

Please move "computer science" to the science list and put "software engineering" under the "applied sciences" list.

It is pretty clear that algorithms and analysis go well with mathematics, while working applications are something else completely. Thank you.

Backing up database -- the database will be frozen for a few minutes to make an updated backup dump. If you find yourself locked out from editing, please feel free to peruse and edit the Meta-Wikipedia (http://meta.wikipedia.org/) or one of our other language sections[?]. --Brion 13:08 Dec 7, 2002 (UTC)

Where does the "this day in history" entries come from? It lists Ramadan now, which isn't a historical event. Pearl Harbor should be listed. Tokerboy 16:25 Dec 7, 2002 (UTC)

The day in history stuff is outdated. Given that the Main Page is currently maintained mostly by one person (Mav), should we rename this to This week in history? --Eloquence

Hey, other people help. :) If I had to choose between this week and this day I would choose this day since the next link is always the current day. How about Historical anniversaries? --mav

Sounds good to me. I'm not entirely sure if the term anniversary has positive connotations. --Eloquence

Done. Yeah, anniversary isn't the best but it works. --mav

Why is not the link to the Czech site [[1] (http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page)] on the main page? The announcement can be "Czech (Cesky)" --Rudyment[?]

That was just an oversight. Done. --mav

Can a new sentance be added about wiktioanry please? - fonzy

Come up with a good sentence and state a good place to place it and then we might get somewhere. --mav

May I for starters suggest in a new 2nd paragraph putting,

Wikipedia is not a dictionary but by popular demand we have begun our own at Wiktionary (http://wiktionary.wikipedia.org/)

Eclecticology

What are the rules regarding using a photograph of somebody? Vera Cruz 03:30 Dec 15, 2002 (UTC)

It depends on the photo, how it is used, what the copyright status of the photo is, who owns it and whether or not the person who took it or the subject is alive or dead and how long. Yes, it is complicated. You should post your question on the Village pump. --mav

i think that you all need to put something on olliscopes on this site because i cant find them ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!!! i NEED them for my science project!

Perhaps you are thinking of oscilloscopes. --Camembert

Why Bill Clinton?

                  --Phoe6

It was a slow day as far as history is concerned so the impeachment of slick willy was the best I could come up with. He was impeached on December 19, 1998. --mav 19:42 Dec 23, 2002 (UTC)

The ongoing events reads.

 U.S plan to invade Iraq |  War on terrorism

It should be 'U.S plan to invade Iraq IS NOT War on terrorism '--Phoe6

? What are you talking about? Is that just an isolated rant? If so it is not appropriate to place it here. --mav 22:15 Dec 26, 2002 (UTC)

Mav, can you replace the layout block "About the project": with the new one in Main Page/Temp? This separates the large block as we already discussed, and I've added a link to the new Wikipedia:Shared resources, which is currently an orphan. --Eloquence

Done. --mav

Thanks!--Eloquence

might it be appropriate to ad a reference to this article in the news,

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=535&ncid=535&e=6&u=/ap/20021230/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_217 more info: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/mariner/20021223 --12.233.98.161[?]

A summary for it in Current events would be more than enough. --mav

I'd like to add Mary Wesley to recent deaths, but the article is too stubbish at the moment. :( -- Tarquin 11:25 Jan 1, 2003 (UTC) (and can we clean up this talk page & remove all the old stuff? It's getting a bit too long)

She also needs to be listed on Recent celebrity deaths. Nah, you haven't seen long until you've seen my talk page. --mav

Attention:

Unless somebody disagrees I'm going to tweak the formatting of the main page to more closely match current heading style. See Main Page/Temp. --mav

I think the headings are too big. It's OK in articles because you have a lot of text between them, but on the main page I would prefer something slightly smaller. It's too attention-grabbing. --Eloquence

I turned most of the headings into H3s by adding one H2 heading named ==Category Index==. This may not be the best name for it... Any ideas for an H2 heading name for the more meta-type stuff? --mav

One of the rules of design is to try to make things obvious instead of needing to point them out. Headings like "Category index", "Selected articles .." may not really be necessary. The large box around the selected articles stuff directs the first time visitor's attention to that box, whereas we would want them to read the "Welcome to Wikipedia" paragraph first (right now this works because the "Welcome to Wikipedia" stuff is bold). But if you want something to work on, the Wikipedia: namespace stuff could badly use cleanup and structuring, and we really need to come up with a well-defined process for first time visitors to figure out how things work around here. --Eloquence

Is that better? I do wish we could use the H2 - but yes at lower resolutions the H2 are too big. --mav

The "Category Index" heading, as Eloquence says, was not needed; the actual list of categories is self-explanatory. I liked the (now deleted) "Selected articles of timely interest" box, however. Boxing off the currently featured stuff visually simplified the page, which was good, and clarified it too. Yes, it does catch the eye, but as just one of the three primary foci of the page, and not to the exclusion of the "Welcome to Wikipedia" section or the category index, IMO. As for heading size, the smallest ones (as on the current main page) were best, even at fairly high resolutions. Tannin

It's OK here. Perhaps we should remove the Press Coverage section? It's not updated much and we have a detailed listing in Friends of Wikipedia (which could use some reorg as well). --Eloquence

I really like the temp page as of my last edit. Your idea to place everything in a table was great! Now everything fits on my screen (granted my sreen is 1400 pixels wide). --mav

IMO the H2 headings are needed to organize the page in 3 different areas. It is also conceptually clean to go from H1 -> H2 -> H3 --mav

It is certainly conceptually clean, but remember we are not working on an article here -- this is what the H1, H2, H3 hierarchy is useful for, where you need to structure large amounts of text. We are trying to create an intro page that gives the reader a good idea where to go without overtaxing him with information. By having many different font sizes, and many different headlines, the visitor doesn't know where to look, and the whole structure dissolves. Instead of looking for visual clues, he now has to read all those headlines: "Browse", "About" .. Good design makes clever use of small visual hints. Bad design makes use of lots of information that tells you what you should be doing. "I think you are writing a letter.." --Eloquence

Hm. I don't know. With the headings all a person has to do is just read the heading itself to know with the context is of the whole section. Without the heading the reader has to piece together the information for themselves by reading several subheadings and displayed links. The Browse and About headings give an instant cue to the organization of the whole page. If the H2 is displayed too big then that is something that needs to be fixed in the style sheet. --mav

While the two sections are very distinct (making it useful to distinguish them visually), the "About" section is fairly heterogenous. "About" is not really a proper description anyway, especially as we have links to all the non-English Wikipedias there. The left side (categories) is fairly obvious because it is the run-of-the mill category layout that many people are familiar with from Yahoo et al. Neither the "Browse" nor the "About" headline are particularly helpful in finding stuff. --Eloquence

i have no idea how to communicate with anybody here. Why isn't there some kind of simple java chatroom? Um, using recent changes cur last isn't very useful because you can't cut and paste from one of the selected documents. Could that be changed? I have an unstable connection and when it disconnects as Im clicking on submit...well i lose all my data...what can be done about that? Vera Cruz

That is a question for the village pump. --mav

The last line on every page is *sooo* ugly:

  This page...  The page...   This page...

Not exactly good style. Can't we think of something more eloquent?

Like:

  This page was last modified DATE and has been accessed NN times since DATE.
    Wikipedia content is available under the GNU FDL.

or something similar... -- Martin

I agree. When I have time I'll bug the developers about it. --mav

The text has been changed. --Eloquence

I find the "All text is available under the terms..." to be misleading, particularly as the justification is that some images may have additional restrictions on copying due to being fair-use excerpts of other non-GFDL copyrighted works. This is equally true of fair-use textual quotations (additionally you may be restricted by local trademark, patent, libel, privacy, blasphemy, obscenity, etc laws from copying various portions of the text), and ignores the many public domain and GFDL-only-licensed images that we do have. "Wikipedia content" would be much preferable IMHO. --Brion 11:16 Jan 7, 2003 (UTC)

I dunno - "Wikipedia content" seems a bit vague. How about "All content .. where not otherwise noted"? --Eloquence

The text has improved somewhat, but now "GNU Free Documentation License" has a line break (in Mozilla, and perhaps in other browsers too), which is even uglier than before. Can't the license stuff be put in a second line entirely, possibly in a somewhat smaller font? Also, my suggestion to let last edit time and number of accesses switch places was not accidental, because I believe most casual readers are more interested in how old the content they are seeing might be. Number of accesses is more of a geek thing (not that there's anything wrong with that). Finally, I am not sure if it really helps to have "GNU" on every page so visibly. A few people react somewhat allergic to GNU, and as much as I admire Richard Stallman, I fear people might lose confidence in our NPOV if they are familiar with some of Richard's decidedly non-NPOV statements... --Martin

Martin, I think these are non-issues. 1) Line-break -- happens when a line gets too long. Inserting arbitrary breaks is bad style, we might add more text there anyway. The font-size should be smaller, I already checked in a modified stylesheet but this doesn't seem to be live yet. 2) Last update vs. stats -- matter of taste. The last update isn't exactly very useful when someone just copied in a large chunk of text from the 1911 Britannica. Less extremely put, the fact that a page has been recently updated doesn't mean that it's up-to-date. The visitor counter is interesting to anyone who cares about the project. 3) GNU -- this is silly. It's the name of the license, and besides legal obligations, we should give credit where it's due.--Eloquence 22:19 Jan 7, 2003 (UTC)

Well, the GNU project is an operating system, basically. And the Wikipedia license is most definitely not called GNU, but GFDL. Wikipedia, aside from using a license somewhat similar to Free Software, is in no way affiliated with the GNU project. There is no legal obligation to put free advertising for the Free Software Foundation on virtually all our pages... --Martin

GFDL is the abbreviation for GNU Free Documentation License. Since almost nobody knows what GFDL means, it makes sense to spell it out. Your GNU-paranoia is extremely silly. --Eloquence

In the free software world, the abbreviation GPL is commonly used. And mathematically speaking, it isn't even possible to spell out GFDL, because GNU is recursive... I suppose Wikipedia doesn't quite meet Richard Stallman's high standards anyway. Many articles I have verified with Google did indeed contain bits of copyrighted material. Is rewording really that difficult for many people? --Martin

Which articles contain copyrighted material? If so, please point it out on the respective Talk Page. Articles that contain copyrighted information should either be modified or listed on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion.

Okay, the above column is now so narrow that only dogs can read it. If you're not discussing the layout of the Main Page, move it to meta or a new Wikipedia: page please -- Tarquin 19:56 Jan 9, 2003 (UTC)

  What
  do
  you
  mean
  by
  it
  is
  too
  nar-
  row
  ?
  :-)

OK, OK, moved it to m:Copyright_bot. --Martin

A defiant North Korea warned that sanctions against it would "mean a war," this should probably go on the main page since both the us and north korea have threatened "no negotiation" Vera Cruz

And where exactly would that go? The selected articles section is a list of links - all other text needs to go in the corresponding selected article and/or in the corresponding grouping page (current events, recent celebrity deaths, day page etc). --mav

When I search for December 7, it's not listed at the top. Vera Cruz

See Wikipedia:Searching.

its not helpful. Vera Cruz

Look again.

Well I see your change, and that helps explain why it's not working right, but if I type in December 7 i kinda wanna see a link to December 7, not December 6... Vera Cruz

Ricin should be capitalized. It's not a brand name. --Eloquence

The Wikipedia main page should have a better HTML "<Title>". In order to maximize bookmarks, references, searches, etc., please change "Main Page: Wikipedia" to "Wikipedia, Main Page". That way, someone bookmarking the page will always see Wikipedia even if the title of the page gets truncated. If someone responds to this, they might also like to consider similar changes for other Wikipedia pages.

I second your opinion about the Main Page title. I accidentally bookmarked that page twice, because I was scanning my bookmarks for Wikipedia, not "Main Page", obviously, then had to change the bookmark title. Administrators, please do something about it! --Martin

How about an option to turn off redirects when searching? Also, the front page has over 1 million views... Vera Cruz

The introduction curently says "... to produce a free and complete encyclopedia in every language". There are at least six thousand living languages in the world today, and countless thousands of extinct ones, most of which we know next to nothing about. Do we seriously propose to have an enyclopaedia in Atikamekw and ancient Etruscan? As it stands, it makes the project appear hopelessly naive. May I suggest changing the wording to "... in every major language" GrahamN 20:50 Jan 10, 2003 (UTC)

Absolutely not. Wikipedia shall be in every language that anyone cares enough about to edit in, just as it shall cover every topic that anyone cares enough to write about encyclopedically. "Major language" is a slap in the face to anyone whose language you decide isn't major. (Haven't we had this discussion before?) --Brion 20:57 Jan 10, 2003 (UTC)

I agree with Brion. Many people think that Esperanto isn't a major language, yet it is one of the fastest growing Wikipedias. We even have a Latin Wikipedia! --Eloquence

we'd better put something about this on the page about all the languages... Brion is right, it's come up before. -- Tarquin 21:19 Jan 10, 2003 (UTC)

GrahamN, check out the new wording on Main Page/Temp. It doesn't have the problems you mention but leaves us open to have as many or as few languages as there are people to contribute to them. --mav

Good point, Brion, about "major". I hadn't thought of that. But I still think it is absurd to say "every language". "Welcome to Wikipedia, a multilingual project to produce the world's greatest public domain encyclopedia" gets my vote. --GrahamN 19:00 Jan 12, 2003 (UTC)

We ain't public domain - not at all. Our goal is to be the best encyclopedia - period. --mav

Well, we will be seventy years after we're all dead. Ya gotta think long-term here! :) --Brion 22:51 Jan 12, 2003 (UTC)

I will write out one hundred times "Open content is not public domain. Open content is not public domain..." --GrahamN 23:02 Jan 12, 2003 (UTC)

Das ist echt lustig.. ;)

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