Talk:Worldwide government positions on war on Iraq

This text was originally located at Support and opposition for the U.S. plan to invade Iraq. A complete history for the text may be found there. - Montréalais 05:03 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)

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Jtdirl, I don't think that the phrasing of the paragraph you added on Irish opinion is appropriate. I am mentioning this here because I first want to discuss it before being seen as someone who will simply hide facts that he doesn't like. You added:

A scale of the change in attitudes in Europe over the approach is shown in Ireland. In the aftermath of the destruction of the World Trade Center, Ireland declared a full national day of mourning for the victims. By February 2003, the public reaction to the Bush administration actions over Iraq was such that 100,000 took part in an anti-war march in Dublin, with demands being made that the United States be refused permission to use Shannon airport as a stop over point when flying their soldiers from the United States to countries bordering Iraq.

I do not see how the two different events you have mentioned here (reaction to 9/11 terrorism; reaction to declaration of intent to attack Iraq) represent a shift in public opinion. Rather, I see them as being founded on the same basic principle (killing people is bad). I would quite like to remove the mentions of the 9/11 terrorism here, as it simply does not belong here, and it is inherently POV to say that the two reactions constitute a shift. WDYT? --snoyes 23:03 Feb 22, 2003 (UTC)

I disagree, and so do most commentators who wrote in the issue. The reaction wasn't based simply on horror of deaths; mass deaths occur all the time in many states. It was based on an empathy with America, a feeling of sympathy for a country that Ireland had a long association with, from the emigration of the nineteenth century to Bill Clinton's involvement in the peace process. It was not just mass deaths, it was mass deaths in a friend of ours.

The reaction over Iraq is based to a significant extent on an image of the US that is different to 9/11. At 9/11, the US had the sympathy of Ireland. Now, the US is seen as bullyboy trying to intimidate the world into agreeing to allow it wage war on Iraq. There is a similar reaction to the decision of the EU commission to allow the US government access to passenger details of people travelling to the US, such as their credit card nos, etc. It is again seen as bullyboy America forcing Europe to give it access to information strictly protected under Irish and European data protection regulations but which in the US has much less protection, the gut feeling being 'do we trust Bush and his administration with our sensitive data. The answer is 'no', hence the outcry.

The issue wasn't simply revulsion at deaths, it was that whereas after 9/11 the US was seen as a friend who had suffered a loss, now it is seen as a bully trying to get its own way. And polls show that if the war had UN sanction, Ireland would support it, even though it would cause mass casualties. The issue boils down to the changing image of the US,. simply death numbers. JTD 23:24 Feb 22, 2003 (UTC)

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This is a non-ideal way to organise things, seperating out "support" and "opposition". It would be better to organise things by country, rather than artificially polarising the issue. Martin

I agree. JTD 00:31 Feb 23, 2003 (UTC)

Its a good point. While Britain might seem a good example of a nation that supports the US and France is a good example of one that doesn't, its hardly clear cut. Susan Mason

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Without deleteing anything, I have moved some of what was at Worldwide government positions on war on Iraq to Popular opposition to war on Iraq. This page should focus on the positions of the governments themselves, while we have other pages dedicated to public opinion and protests. As a next step, it would be nice if we could start to graduate government positions onto some sort of spectrum like:

• Opposes Iraq War absolutely
• Supports Iraq War with UN approval, opposes otherwise
• Supports Iraq War absolutely

I see your logic, 128.193.88.18, but it is grossly unfair to Australians to imply that Australia supports the US position - which is what the entry now does. The current government's policy is opposed by 70% of Australians, and may well not last much longer. Tannin

What would you suggest would be the best way to handle it? We've got other pages with tons of public opinion stuff, and I think it would be useful to have this page get directly to the status of government positions. What if we limited ourselves to no more than one line regarding public opinion per country?

Yes. A good way to handle it. I'll add that one line in a moment. Tannin

I qualified the mention of the UK by describing it as the UK government for polls suggest that the war, particularly without a second UN resolution, would barely have the support of one in four voters. Also mentioned Clare Short's attack on Blair and Robin Cook's hint that he will resign. STÓD/ÉÍRE 11:07 Mar 14, 2003 (UTC)

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Moved from article for irrelevance

A U.S. Army psychological warfare group is operating in the region. United States and British aircraft have dropped leaflets on Iraqi cities and military positions, warning Iraqi soldiers not to fire on Coalition aircraft in the no-fly zone[?] and not to support Saddam Hussein. In addition, EC-130 Commando Solo aircraft, equipped with mediumwave, shortwave and FM transmitters, have been broadcasting directly to the Iraqi people.

This would be best in the US invasion of Iraq article, except it's outdated - I remember this report from a week or so before the invasion started. Maybe it could be rolled into Preparations for 2003 invasion of Iraq somehow. --AW

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Moved from article for irrelevance (the support paragraph should talk about support, and the contra paragraph should talk about contra)

However, as of late January, the United States had asked 53 countries to join it in a military campaign against Iraq, and by March, over 40 countries had agreed to do so, with only a few agreeing to provide troops. [1] (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40191-2003Jan24)

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I'd like add something along the following lines:

Many in the United States and Britain have predicted that once it became clear that the Baath regime was certain to fall, many who initially opposed the action would begin to support it. Indeed, both Germany and France have publicly adopted a pragmatic approach in light of possible humanitarian crises in Iraq and the prospect of eventual United Nations involvement in the rebuilding of Iraq. German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer was quoted on April 2nd 2003 as saying We hope the regime will collapse as soon as possible and we'll have no further loss of life — civilians or soldiers. Chadloder 03:49 Apr 3, 2003 (UTC)

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Soon, shall we make a new article called "Worldwide government positions on war on Syria?" Kingturtle 01:52 Apr 15, 2003 (UTC)

Sure, as long as we can attribute the sources. -º¡º

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why is this article divided in three blocs, one "for", one "against" and one "oriental" ? Can't middle orient countries be moved in the appropriate blocs ? User:anthere