For all these reasons and many more, QEII is unique, like Pope John Paul II, and it's hard to tell what about her characteristics arise from her training or her personality. Also the article does not make clear enough that QEII devotes this time to UK concerns, and has far less time for other countries, e.g. Canada, where she is the constitutional monarch. Main function of the monarchy in these countries is to let the PM appoint a Governor-General to do all the official receptions.
Also, other monarchs like King Hussein of Jordan (a very effective diplomat), Japanese emperors Hirohito and Akihito should be covered in more depth. These are major historical figures and have shaped what we think of as a constitutional monarch, with very different ideas of democracy.
Re the Queen and Canada. You probably remember how some years ago a Canadian DJ rang Buckingham Palace claiming to be the Canadian PM and was put through to her. He proceded as PM to request the Queen's intervention in a separatist referendum. She fell for the imposter, but showed her superb tact towards a dubiously constitutional request by asking for more information and very subtlely hinting that maybe the suggestion wasn't the best idea. One thing that struck me in dealing with Australian republican politicians who as ministers had dealt with her was the high personal regard they developed for her. I know British Labour ministers who were closet (or not so closet) republicans when they went into power in 1997 sing her praises now.
As to where those skills come from; since Victoria's time the monarchy seems to have developed a passion for correctness. King George V was probably Britain's greatest constitutional monarch. His interventions on Ireland (which I know a lot about, coming from Ireland) were legendary; his role in getting the British Government to allow him to make an appeal for peace and reconciliation, his behind the scenes role in calming nerves and building consensus before the Treaty negotiations, his diffusing a row involving de Valera and an Irish governor-general. (Only in the last few weeks we discovered he made incredible efforts to get a compromise that could have saved the life of Terence McSwiney, the Lord Mayor of Cork who died on hunger strike during the Irish War of Independence. But his efforts with Lloyd George failed and McSwiney died.) [George's desire to 'help' cropped up when Ramsey McDonald formed his first government. Ministers were barely paid, yet as ministers they were required to wear 'evening dress' and 'court dress' on occasion at state banquets, Privy Council meetings, etc. But the cost was a couple of months salary, way beyond the reach of the new ministers. The King did some quiet checking around, then informed McDonald of a place that could supply the ministers with the required clothes at a fraction of the cost as a favour to the King. It was all kept hush hush at the time, but McDonald and his ministers were very touched by the King's actions, while the King apparently enjoyed watching Tory politicians look with astonishment at Labour ministers dressed up, they wondering, 'how the hell did they afford to get the clothes!']
The Queen Mother showed that same passion for 'doing the right thing' by insisting that she would continue working even at 101. (One journalist covering her at an engagement (he's in his 40s) said that at the engagement, she (aged 101) wore him out, 'working' the room, meeting everyone, even extending her scheduled stay of 30 minutes to two and a half hours!) With the notable exception of the disastrous Duke of Windsor, modern British royals seem to have a passionate belief that they are there to help in whatever way they can, including taking the job of monarch very very seriously. And Prince Charles, whatever you may think about what he says, has chosen to get involved in a range of 'quality of life' issues, particularly with the Prince's Trust that has created thousands of jobs in some of the most neglected parts of Britain's inner cities.
So I think Elizabeth II's very active, serious and contributing role as monarch working with governments seems to be an approach that in general this family has shared since Victoria's day. Though other monarchs too make serious contributions on a scale that simply isn't realised, with the media and most people focusing on the private lives or who is wearing what outfit or living in what palace. I did make the point that other heads of state, through long service also have great experience which can be put to work in helping governments. I'm sure others have information that can be added in. Hopefully my mentioning of Elizabeth II is simply a start, that might build a larger page on practical examples of how constitutional monarchies really work. The bit on Elizabeth II is I think very necessary right now in contextualising what a constitutional monarchy actually is. JTD 02:33 Jan 19, 2003 (UTC)
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Better, but this is still more about "monarchs" than the idea of monarchy. Also you have included absolutely NO BAD EXAMPLES, e.g. of misbehaving constitutional monarchs, or the reasons why constitutional limits were put on monarchial powers in the first place, e.g. Britain.
Most of this material will be moved elsewhere. You can do it, or let others do it. But it is woefully unbalanced as an encyclopedia article as it stands, tho your intent is appreciated, you are simply showing a pro-monarchist bias here.
Fact is, most monarchies hold together through simple terror - even those with constitutional limits on their power. Rania of Jordan said it this way: 'if a President loses the faith of his people, he loses an election. If a King does, he loses his life.' That's about right, for almost any nation outside Europe that has a monarch. The dark side of this system is not expressed, and it must be expressed, because it exists.
Although marking the QEII stuff as 'example' helps a bit more, it's not a 'practical' example since other monarchs can't emulate her behavior or the special traits of the British monarchy, therefore the reader doesn't understand monarchy better unless they are already anti-monarchist and think it has no use.
How about an article on the 20th century performance of the Windsor/Hohenzollern family in the British Monarchy? That seems to be more up your alley than the political science of the system of constitutoinal monarchy.
No offense, but to focus on one family in the system of one country, and barely touch on how that system affects even the other countries where they are heads of state, just isn't on. If you want to save this material, give it another few passes, and find some really BAD monarchs.
His Claim: In Australia the post of the head of state is appointed by the Prime Minister Incorrect.
The Australian constitution and law states that the Australian head of state is the Queen Of Australia, who is not appointed but inherited her throne. Presumably in the above quote he means the Governor-General of Australia. But
Having tried seven times to 'doctor' the article on Australia to insist that Australia is a republic (don't laugh!) and been roundly ridiculed and torn to shreds by among other Tannin and myself, 211.28.96.8 now seems to think he can add in dodgy theories about Australian constitutional law onto this page, with his ' implicit claim' (in the line above) that Australia is a republic with the Governor-General as head of state. (If it was true, which it demonstrably isn't, it would be totally irrelevant to this page as this page is about constitutional monarchy, which makes it all the more bizarre that he has chosen to make such a 'claim' here in the first place!)
So far, over the two pages, Tannin, Mintguy and I have had to do 10 revertions of his 'doctorings'. Wikipedia is a credible publication containing credible facts, which is why ludicrous theories cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged. If such theories would be laughed at in any political science lecture, and constitutional law lecture, and history lecture, and would not be given the time of day in any other encyclopedia, they sure as hell can't be given any credence here. Having failed to get his wacky theory onto the Australia page, he can't use this page as a substitute dumping ground. JTD 23:04 Feb 11, 2003 (UTC)
Good change, Someone else. well spotted. JTD 23:14 Feb 11, 2003 (UTC)
The following grossly inaccurate paragraph has been removed.
The Australian government is an example where the constitution was written and voted into effect by its citizens and states, where no monarch or other hereditary title is involved in the operation of the government, and where ultimate authority is derived solely from its judicial system and citizens.
Just about everything in the above sentence is incorrect.
Please Daeron, before you continue on your quest to claim contrary to all the evidence that Australia is a republic, try reading the Australian constitution, something you clearly have failed to do. JTD 21:23 Feb 20, 2003 (UTC)
Sorry to disappoint, but read original & amendments in 1986, UNSW. Sorry to hear you're still on your quest to claim every dictionary & other encycpedia on the planet has the wrong definition for what the word 'republic' means. I understand your Irish aspirations to have 'republic' mean something grander than it is, but republic is a very generic term. - Daeron.
I'm puzzled. Usually your stuff is good. Why is it on the issue of republic/monarchy you seem utterly incapable of understanding elementary facts as taught even in civics class to seven year olds. So you are right then, and Malcolm Turnbull (Australia's leading republican), Nick Greiner (for pm of NSW), Dr. John Hurst (Convenor of the Australian Republican Movement) Mary Kostakidis of the Constitutional Centenary Foundation, Professor George Winterton, who is Professor of Law in NSW are all wrong. You see, they were members of the Republic Advisory Committee. All republicans. And all say 100% that Australia is a constitutional monarchy. Try reading An Australian Republic, (2 volumes) the report of the RAC. Listen to Paul Keating, Bob Hawke, Thomas Kineally. Or are they all wrong. And every dictionary. Every encyclopędia, every embassy, every state, every attorney-general, every history book all wrong and YOU are right! In other words EVERYONE ELSE is wrong and you are right! JTD 02:10 Feb 21, 2003 (UTC)
Fact Sheet 2.4 Issue 2: The Head of State - Report of the Constitutional Foundation. Australia is a constitutional monarchy. A constitutional monarchy is a system of government in which the head of state is a king or queen but has little real power, acting for all or most purposes on the advice of an elected government.
The Australian Head of State is Queen Elizabeth II. For Australian purposes, she is known as Queen of Australia. She is represented in Australia by the Governor-General and the State Governors. These are appointed by the Queen from time to time on the advice of the Prime Minister or the relevant Premier. These representatives act on the Queen's behalf on almost all matters. Gradually, over the decades, they have become the effective Heads of State for most purposes.
BTW, if you read the Australia Act, 1986 (which you obviously haven't), you'd know it explicitly did not amend the constitution. You don't have to take my words for it. Take Section 5.
Section 5 [Commonwealth Constitution, Constitution Act and Statute of Westminster not affected] Sections 2 and 3(2) above -
JTD 03:35 Feb 21, 2003 (UTC)
There is always a pattern to your interventions.
If as you seem to think, Australia is a republic, why does
BTW, here's what the Australian Republican Movement says:
Who is Australia's Head of State?
Elizabeth II, the Queen of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, is Australia's Head of State because:
The Governor-General is not the Head of State of Australia because:
'Australia is a constitutional Monarchy and in accordance with these principles the monarch is our head of state. Both the above provisions of the Australian Constitution and custom make it clear that the Queen is intended to be the embodiment of the Commonwealth of Australia.'
A recent example of the symbolism and custom in regard to this was the visit by President Clinton to Australia in November 1996 during which reciprocal toasts were given to each nation by giving a loyal toast to the head of state of each nation as the embodiment of the nations. To honour the United States of America, a toast was given to the President. President Clinton responded by giving a toast to the Queen, not to the Governor-General.
SOURCE: Australian Republican Movement Website (http://www.republic.org.au/ARM-2001/q&a/qa_hos.htm)
Is THAT clear enough for you now? Or is the Australian Republican Movement also part of some monarchist agenda?
PS: stop also misrepresenting other people's views on wiki. Zoe did not agree with you; she raised a question which everyone answered. And you will find that your reverts of your doctoring were done by a number of people, not just me. And your changes are generally viewed as a laughing stock, which is why on this issue the reverts were done and will keep being done. Wikipedia is a source of facts, not fiction. It is your problem if you cannot tell the difference. Stick to writing on topics that you know about, and there clearly are a lot of those. But don't doctor sites to misrepresent the facts. Wikipedia deserves better and you clearly have more ability and more to contribute to Wikipedia than undermining your reputation the way it has been undermined by this fantasy you have. Whatever status Australia has will be decided by the people of Australia, not your unilateral miswriting of sites, which has by the way now been formally complained about on Wikipedia. Issue closed. JTD 20:01 Feb 21, 2003 (UTC)
There is an ungoing problem with Daeron which I thought was over but he has now started phase 2. After a war to make the Australia page claim that Australia is a republic (which as the entire world knows is wrong), and 7 reversions by a number of people, he stopped doctoring that page to move on to Constitutional monarchy which he doctored, again to suggest Australia is a republic. After 3 reversions there he stopped. Now he has restarted by 'adapting' pages linked to Australia to repeat his nonsense. First he added in a factually inaccurate paragraph in Constitutional monarchy on the same theme, how Aussie is a republic. I removed that paragraph to the talk page, with a list of all the factual inaccuracies in it (everything!), He has also created a link to an already existing page which he then rewrote . . . to claim Australia is a republic, or rather that a commonweath is by definition a republic (which it isn't), therefore it follows that the Commonweath of Australia must be one! It is as if, having been shown to be wrong on the Australia page by everyone who came near it, every textbook, every encyclopędia, every document, the words of leading republican politicians and the text of the constitution, he is still determined to make the claim somewhere on wikipedia, even if buried in pages linked to the main Australian page.
I'm not an expert on the other areas he writes about but they seem fine enough. But what do we do about this preoccupation with 'republicanising' Australia irrespective of the facts? I can't be keeping an eye on him all the time; it was only by accident that I stumbled across his latest 'doctorings'. Any suggestions? JTD 06:06 Feb 21, 2003 (UTC)
Aren't constitutional monarchies a form of a republic? Susan Mason
By that universally applied rule, Australia, like Canada, the UK, Denmark, etc etc are constitutional monarchies. The United States, the Italy, the Republic of Ireland, France, etc are republics. It is that simple for the entire world, except Daeron. JtdIrL 01:47 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)
What aren't you calling Australia a monarchy? How come you are saying "constitutional monarchy". Who has the real power in Australia, is that person elected or not? Australia can call itself a constitutional monarchy until its blue in the face but it sure looks like a republic. Why, Rome had an Emperor but it was a republic... In any case, a ceremonial head of state is ceremonial, Australia might be a monarchy at ceremonies and parties, but apparently it isn't a monarchy when it comes to governance and government. Susan Mason
Oh for crying out loud, Susan. See Constitutional monarchy, see Republic, get out a dictionary and learn your definitions. And no, a head of state is not just for ceremonial reasons, read Head of State. (And correct [anonymous person below] on Rome, on Australia, and yes this is not the page to discuss it.) JtdIrL 02:10 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)
Rome is generally considered to have ceased being a republic once the emperors appeared. The above is presumably mixing up republics with representational democracies - Australia is one of the latter, which is why it is functionally similar to various democratic republics, but not actually the former. In any case, this is not the page to discuss the matter on.
Well I guess the conversation is over as you were unable to refrain from being rude. Apparently you dont know enough about the topic to discuss it. Susan Mason The facts are on the pages if you want to read them. This is not the place, and I am too busy to spend my time going through the ABC of constitutional structures with you here. JtdIrL 02:21 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)
Do you see how insulting you are? Who do you think you are to talk that way? This is the place to discuss this, because you are saying another user is annoying because he disagrees with you. I am of the understanding that constitutional monarchy is just a fancy term for republics which retain the royal family as a "national mascot". Your depraved behavior indicates to me that you know I'm right and are too proud to discuss it, so instead you would rather hide behind some pretense of it being a waste of your time to discuss such "simple" material. Susan Mason
A constitutional monarchy is a democratic system of parliament government in which the post of head of state and usually though not always its functions and duties are fulfilled by a monarch, operating within the bounds of a constitutional parliamentary system. Hence 'constitutional' 'monarchy'. And no I am not complaining that he is disagreeing with me, he is disagreeing with the Encyclopędia Brittanica, World Book, the United Nations, The Commonwealth of Australia Act, the Australian government, the Republic Advisory Committee, the Australian Republican Movement, Buckingham Palace, all law textbooks, all law sourcebooks, the view of all academics, the Chief Justice of Australia, The Privy Council, former prime ministers (and republicans) Paul Keating and Bob Hawke, former governor-general Bill Hayden, etc etc etc all of whom say Australia is a constitutional monarchy not a republic. They may want it to be, but it isn't. The entire world says one thing. Daeron disagrees and vandalised sites on Wiki stating his ludicrous claim as fact until a number of us went to every site he made this claim and reverted . . . and reverted . . . and reverted 10 times til he stopped. So history lesson over. Bye Lir/Vera/Susan or whoever it is this time. Next time read the pages. JtdIrL 07:11 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)
Hey - stop it both of you. There is no reason to exchange insults. --mav
Aren't constitutional monarchies technically "representative democracies"? As I noted, if the head of state is a monarch but that position is only ceremonial, then how is it different from a republic? Susan Mason
Constitutional Monarchy is capitalised because it is a proper noun, referring to a formal definition. It is also written in lower case when using an indefinite article. But it is wrong to use it as halfcapitalised, ie Constitutional monarchy. STÓD/ÉĶRE 21:51 Apr 1, 2003 (UTC)
In the main article I'm pretty sure the following is not accurate.
"the Queen cannot be prosecuted for any criminal offence"
My understanding is that a British Monarch can only be prosecuted by Parliament and not by the judiciary. Since as head of state a British Monarch has supremacy over the judiciary.
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