Wikipedia talk:No offensive usernames

• Deleted old content (mostly about a user whose name has been changed now) Martin 11:13 Jan 29, 2003 (UTC) Archive (/w/wiki.phtml?title=Wikipedia_talk:No_offensive_usernames&oldid=591323)

Wikipedia talk:NOU arch 2

I regret that there is a need for this policy. For nearly 2 years, people used their common sense when choosing a username. Maybe the existence of this policy will only encourage people to try and flout it. But it is because Wikipedia tries to be open to all that this policy has been stated. We could have just reported dubious usernames to Jimbo for banning; but in the spirit of wikipedia people decided to agree on a statement of the general consensus.-- Tarquin 17:51 Feb 9, 2003 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree. There is no need for a policy, much less a need for *this* policy. In fact, as you alluded to above, this policy has proven to be an attractive nuisance, creating all sorts of petty debates over what names are appropriate and what names aren't and a general atmosphere of intolerance where at least one prominent Wikipedian felt justified in threatening another prominent Wikipedian with a lawsuit for defamation. Indeed, you (Tarquin) suggested that I should exercise my right to fork rather than acknowledging my right to express my opinion that the current policy which prohibits "offensive" usernames is misguided.

Indeed, we could have just reported dubious usernames to Jimbo. Alternatively, we could have just ignored Throbbing Monster Cock's choice of username altogether and focused on whether he was making a worthwhile contribution to the content of Wikipedia. And when this matter was brought to Jimbo's attention, a temporary ban of Throbbing Monster Cock might have have been implemented while allowing debate to continue. However, when Jimbo set forth his summary judgment that this choice of a username was "vandalism," virtually everyone who had a different opinion snapped to attention and defended Jimbo's edict as if it were the word of God.

So where does this leave us? Well, first and foremost, this leaves us with a misguided policy that is no longer open to reasoned debate. It also leaves us with the certain knowledge that vandals will recognize the effectiveness of this particular technique of heckling Wikipedians. It also leaves us with a tainted community that one can no longer describe as free and open.-- NetEsq 20:47 Feb 9, 2003 (UTC)

How can you say that the policy is no longer open to reasoned debate. If you have a reasonable argument that a serious encyclopedia project ought to permit offensive usernames, then by all means, make it.

This is not my position, nor has it ever been my position. And with all due respect, the reasoned debate ended when you asserted that the name "Throbbing Monster Cock" was nothing more than vandalism and announced your decision to delete it from the hallowed halls of Wikipedia. Virtually everyone who had another opinion quickly snapped to attention and defended your assessment. -- NetEsq 00:13 Feb 14, 2003 (UTC)

Wikipedia has never been, and never will be, a free-for-all site. We're united by a specific purpose, a purpose that differentiates us from free-for-all communities. It is no blow against our freedom or openness to acknowledge and enforce that purpose. Jimbo Wales 17:45 Feb 13, 2003 (UTC)

Under _ceteris paribus_ conditions, you would be correct. However, you (Jimbo) have a following of Wikipedians which defends your opinions as though those opinions are the word of God. Why not simply impose a temporary ban on a potentially offensive username if and when one crops up, a ban which would be *identical* to one imposed on any other contributor who is suspected of committing vandalism? Is it really necessary to single people out for special treatment simply because they choose an offensive username? And is it really necessary to have a carefully worded policy of prior restraint in this regard? -- NetEsq 00:13 Feb 14, 2003 (UTC)

Yes. (Duh!)

Well said, whoever you were! Arno

I have to say I see no problem with requiring that people ovoid 'offensive' usernames. Most of us work in environments where far more severe restrictions are imposed. The bottom line for me is:

1. It is grossly disrepectful to other users to deliberately adopt a name intended to give the proverbial two fingers to other users & contributors. Would NetEsq find it acceptable to have a user parading themselves across our lists as [KillQueers]. I know as a gay man I'd find myself physically sickened to share a page with someone with that nickname. In fact it would make me think very seriously about cutting any association with Wikipedia if it tolerated any user calling themselves that. I noticed on one page someone compared the conduct of the Israelis towards the Palestinians as being like the nazis towards the jews; it is a debatable point which I would be opposed to censoring on talk pages. But no way would I find it acceptable for a contributor to swan around Wiki calling himself or herself 'JewAreNazis'. They are extreme cases but they highlight the fundamental principle that you cannot simply have a free for all over usernames. There have to be limits. Opinions should and can be expressed on Wiki in other ways. But not through provocative usernames that distract and offend rather than argue and deliberate.

1. Such usernames do damage Wiki. I had two personal experiences of that. In one case, I was talking to a person who had copyright of a set of photographs of famous twentieth century figures. He was enthusiastic about allowing their use on Wikipedia, and about wikipedia itself. But before he made the final agreement he spent some time logging into Wiki. He was impressed by some of the work he saw but shocked by being greeted with nicknames like ThrobbingMemberCock. He asked himself, and it was a perfectly fair question, how seriously does Wiki take itself if it takes contributors that are more interested in being provocatively offensive than in anything else. After coming across ThrobbingMemberCock and I think it was '"Cumguzzler or CrucifiedChrist, he backed off the arrangement. Because their childish antics reflected on the whole project.

More dramatically, I was in contact with an aide to a head of state about getting use of images of that countries past heads of state, presidential palace and various historical images that would have been very useful to Wiki. They too backed off specifically because of ThrobbingMemberCock. Their reasoning was simple; if any of the tabloid press in their state discovered that the head of state's office had authorised the use of pictures on a website with contributors like ThrobbingMemberCock, CumGuzzler or CrucifiedChrist they (the head of state) would be publicly ridiculed (as would Wiki). So there was no way they could possibly authorize the use of photographs to such a website, no matter how good the content. (If I was working in their press office, I would have said the same: don't touch such a website or else the tabloids would have a field day attacking you for associating with such assholes.)

Perhaps some people see Wiki as some sort of gimic to play at being a contributor using childish names. But I take it seriously. On the wiki list one guy wrote in say that his professor wouldn't allow him to refer to Wiki as a source, because it had not been published. That may change, particularly if a hardcopy version is produced. But there would be a snowball's chance in hell of colleges allowing students use such a source if the article they want to refer to was written by some asshole calling himself 'ThrobbingMonsterCock' of 'CrucifiedChrist.'

From the point of view of showing respect to other users, from Wikipedia's own interest in developing a reputation as a quality source of information, such childish immature pranks as using user nicknames to irritate, offend or give the two fingers to other users cannot be allowed to stand. There are plenty more websites where people can act the idiot that way. But not on something as serious as Wikipedia, which is trying to earn for itself the reputation it deserves, as a world class source book and encyclopedia. JTD 20:49 Feb 13, 2003 (UTC)

well put! The people banging on about civil rights an ting are sad timewasters who are barking up the wrong tree.

This seems to be a major problem with David Prenatt (aka netesq) Arno

The fact that you (Arno) and I are on opposite sides of this issue makes me very secure in my position: If you had your way, the Aria Giovanni article would no longer be a part of Wikipedia. -- NetEsq 06:27 Feb 15, 2003 (UTC)

Trying to provoke me with an irrelevant matter, are you? Sorry If I won't oblige. However, I will make the observation that I did eventually abide with majority opinion on that matter. It's a pity that you cannot do likewise here. Arno

It is clearly you who is trying to provoke me, making reference to what "seems to be a major problem" with my zealous defense of freedom of speech. Any fool can see that.

As for your willingness to "abide with the majority opinion," you only did so after your repeated and misguided attempts at censorship provoked other Wikipedians to threaten to ban you, a fate that you tried to impose on me with anonymous and cowardly complaints to various Wikipedia sysops. Clearly, you see this as your opportunity for a rematch.

Simply put, there is no comparison between my zealous advocacy of free speech (which are principled and confined to a proper time, place and manner) and your previous attempts at censorship (which were totally unprincipled and actively imposed over the objections of other Wikipedians). -- NetEsq 16:54 Feb 15, 2003 (UTC)

(Netesq's response was the subject of a complaint to the owners of this site- Arno)

It's been over two months since Arno's attempt to provoke me into a rematch over his attempts to censor the Aria Giovanni article. Apparently, his complaints have fallen on deaf ears, so he is attempting to provoke me into another confrontation -- yet again -- by posting the parenthetical notice that my "response was the subject of a complaint to the owners of this site." Haven't we all got better things to do than play these petty games? -- NetEsq 15:04 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)

Can I just respectfully point out that I am not Arno, but I think you're wrong too? Even if it's italicized to make it look nice, it's still wrong, but also manages to irritate by being written in a uniquely pompous, patronizing, holier-than-thou, junior lecturer way. Thank you. 62.30.150.99[?]

With all due respect, I attach very little significance to the opinions of those who post anonymously. Moreover, I do not take lessons in courtesy and style from anonymous trolls. -- NetEsq 16:54 Feb 15, 2003 (UTC)

Well, to an entreprenurial spirit the sale begins when the customer says "No." Get a little gumption and try,try again. The past, has past: the future has not. Two16.

I will, Two16, but I can understand as I am sure you can, how (particular in the case of the head of state's office) they were so nervous about any association. The last thing I would want to do is cause public embarrassment to that head of state; all it would take is for one tabloid journalist to spot that Wikipedia had access to official portraits, and that the website those portraits had been supplied to had contributors like CumGuzzler, and there would be a front page story, especially if they could find some politician looking for a headline to 'condemn' the president. I'm going to try another source for another picture I want to use. I just hope that, now that CumGuzzler, CrucifiedChrist, TrobbingMonsterCock etc are gone, I may have some luck. JTD 22:56 Feb 13, 2003 (UTC)

Oh Yes this was Irish government. Too bad about the tabloid press, the voting mob and every thing that goes into a porkbarrel of proportional repesentation. Best of Luck in the future.

I am posting this to explain why I am changing my user name from Tokerboy to TUF-KAT. I was asked via e-mail if, as a completely voluntary request, I would consider changing my name. I had already decided to do so, of my own volition, if somebody asked.

I would be lying if I said I didn't choose this name partially out of a desire to ruffle certain feathers. However unjust it is, such a name will be perceived as unprofessional by academics and reporters and other people whom Wikipedia should want to impress with its professionalism. In my daily life, I do not hide the fact that I smoke weed on a daily basis because I regard it as my inalienable right that no law can supersede, and because without it I have no doubt that I would be either dead or homeless and alcoholic right now. I have experienced discrimination as a result; I find this deplorable, but I am willing to accept it in order to make those of my tastes gradually fit into mainstream society. I have the right to do this, to bring discrimination upon myself, but I do not have the right to force the same upon Ed Poor or Zoe or Ortolan or RK or Mav or the anonymous users that contribute to the Wikipedia, and by subjecting the project to unfair discrimination, I am doing just that. The best way to accomplish my goal is to write neutral, concise and informative articles at cannabis, medical marijuana and the War on Drugs, and, if Wikipedia is perceived as professional, the information therein will be trusted and the truth, that marijuana and all drugs should be legalized, will prevail, as the truth always does.

In conclusion, I am offering a prize of 3.5 points added to your Coolness Quotient[?] if you can guess why I chose TUF-KAT and I hope that this decision will not raise a ruckus, a brouhaha nor shenanigans of any sort. I do this of my own volition, because it is the right thing to do.

Tokerboy

Just for the record I never once found your name to be offensive. Do make sure that a developer runs a script so that all your contribs are credited to your new user name. You also need a developer to transfer your sysop rights too. --mav 07:25 Feb 17, 2003 (UTC)

Oh, I know. I don't think anyone actually did, though DW implied it once (not that I care one whit about him). The names I chose above were random and not intended to imply anything about anybody. Tuf-Kat

I didn't find it offensive because I didn't know what it meant. However, I did wonder, when I was looking at my watchlist, who this person TUF-KAT was that had posted something on my talk page which I didn't remember - so that script must have been run. I think I prefer your new name - it makes me think of Top Cat, whereas the other one made me picture you as a "difficult" teenager. Deb 23:12 Feb 17, 2003 (UTC)

I guess "to toke" is an Americanism. Isn't it weird, though, how we all probably have strange ideas of what each other looks like? I always picture Ed Poor as this mad scientist type for some reason, with wild white hair sticking out at all angles. Tuf-Kat

maybe he should change his user name to Dr. Emmett Brown then.. :-)quercus robur