Talk:Thermodynamics

Vhung wrote what looks like a brand new Thermodynamics article. Why? Why not try to adapt the old one, or, if the old one is irremediably bad, why not move it to a /Talk page? Basically, we don't want to have to vote about which version is the best. That's not the wiki way... --LMS 0th-law:

• It is possible to build a thermometer.
• That is: If objects A and B are

in thermal equilibrium with each other, and objects B and C are in thermal equilibrium with each other, then objects A and C are also in thermal equilibrium with each other.

• Two objects are in thermal equilibrium

with each other, if their macroscopic properties, such as electrical resistance or volume, do not change with time when these objects are brought into thermal contact with each other.

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Excised old version

1st-law:

• Convervation of Energy

2nd-law:

• Degradation of Energy (irreversibilities)
• "Nothing goes without loss"
• concept of Entropy (s)
• T.ds = du + p.dv
• T.ds = dh - v.dp

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In lay terms,

• You can't win.
• You can't even break even.
• And you can't get out of the game.

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3rd-law:

• At absolute zero, the Entropy of a Perfect crystal is zero.

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Would it be unfair of me to suggest that this page requires some serious refactoring? :-) --LMS

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Refactoring thermodynamics is best attempted by madmen or fools, or by foolish madmen such as Clifford Truesdell[?].

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There should be a reference to the relationship between Thermodinamics and Statistical Mechanics

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Rephrased second law. I am very wary about making statements that involve the entire universe.

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I don't like the version of the third law given here. I just did a search on the Internet, and it looks like it's fairly popular, but I have no idea why. The first thing someone's going to say when they see it is "who cares about perfect crystals". What about

All processes cease as temperature approaches zero

or

Absolute zero can only be approached asymptotically

I also don't like the ones that say S(T=0)=0, because in the usual derivation of the third law, S(T=0) is a constant, which is set to zero merely for convenience. It's similar to the way you can set gravitational potential energy at r -> ∞ to zero.

If no-one answers, I'll just change it. -- Tim

Okay, no-one answered. It's changed. -- Tim Starling