Talk:Pornography

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This stuff added by some IP number person seems to be more a sketch of ideas than an addition to the entry, so I moved it here -- till we *) 15:11 Nov 3, 2002 (UTC)

Pornography: Investigations and claims

Why study pornography?

Pornography, a subject part of social studies, is studied because of these four issues:

a. Used as documents in crime processing. b. It can promote disesases and/or pregnancy. c. It is sometimes compared with State-sponsored sex-education. d. It is related to the control of child/adult prostitution.

General opinion

Nude Photography is not always equal to Erotica although nudity can be viewed with an erotic perception. The people involved in intercourse pornography are real and could be prostitutes. They could develop sex diseases. Their partners could be a complete stranger or their spouses. Their activities were often made with cameras.

Porn pop-ups are a nuisance.

Known industries/trades

Youth exhibitionism (child, students, workers). Sex exhibitionism (mild, exotic, films). Nudity (partial, full, photography, painted).

Highlights/Summary

In the USA, some states allow the trading of pornography to above legal age. In China, nude photography exists along with nude paintings. Taiwan imports, produces suggestive publications. Many islamic countries ban pornography but allow polygamy. Many westernized countries allow their businesses to broadcast films that carry adult themes(graphic violence, graphic sex etc.).

Definition of Pornography

Usually human-participants in film/video/photo/drawing are depicted in an excessive, non-modest beautiful sexual manner; Deliberate material aimed at arousing male-ejeculation or female-orgasm and encourage further consumption; suggestivity to intercourse; organizational interpretations and individual interpretations; anything used to encourage payment for goods; used to project sexual imagery (and to cause recall) on the consumers; may suggest obscenity; the word is often intersected with obscenity(bad-taste), oral/genital intercourse and nudity (whether partial or full); includes any sexual imagery imagined by anyone whether by chance or by influence; sometimes used to project dominance over another; used as a weapon by foreign women (United States) against men in other countries;

Censorship suggests that the information is controlled.

Falsified material and claiming genuity (people, rape-acting); To cheat subject of profit or good-name in the industry.

Concerns

Porn that suggests prostitution is going on somewhere in the world;

Worries over existence of pornographic material whoose consumption by males that might promote traits such as: masturbation, violence, inhibition, obstructing learning or thinking, wishful thinking, mental illnesses, obstruction to daily activities. Teaching the young of the wrong values: reveal the state of virginity?;

Legitimate commerce in some countries; illegitimate commerce in others. Piracy of porn;

Man-woman intercourse-diagrams as examples used by gvt. agencies to enhance hetereosexual marriages.

The people of porn:

Well-paid stars (usually video/photo stars). Student promoters to sexual material. Student prostitutes. Threatened participants. Alien-prostitutes (on worker's pass). Moon-lighters. Paid-painting-stills.

Sometimes the stars are famous, sometimes they are not. Most participants are women(so that men are attracted to those services) Most are not so tertiary-educated.

The idea that porn is a source of income for the participants who 'feel' poor or are excited at the chance to be famous. Men financing them to do those, women managers in the act of recording porn.

Women as passive-prompters (claims to human right of exhibit) and the males as promoters in a more active-manner (just looking for income) only to reveal other stories (due to mathematical nature of human behaviour: binomial scope).

Used as documents in crime processing.

When a person is convicted of a crime, his possessions are reportedly confiscated: magazines, digital-film-discs, computers etc. for evidence against the person.

It can promote disesases and/or pregnancy.

With the influence of pornography, people may be cheated by others into non-consensus sex. Pornography is reportedly used by some males in parts of the world to ejeculate at home or else-where. Contact with semeninal liquid can be dangerous.

It is sometimes compared with State-sponsored sex-education

It is related to the control of child/adult prostitution

Comparisons and other ideas

Material that is purely about sex. Material that includes sex as 'genuine' to the story. The pop-star/musician as inspiring, the porn-star as 'promising'. Often due to lack of all-round body warm-ups?

Silky world of porn/glamour; Hardship world of landmines, illnesss and a short-life;

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The previous person to work on this page edited it to claim claim that the internet resulted in a rise in the incidence of kiddie porn. This claim is often made - it is less often backed with real evidence. Please provide some if you want the claim to stand. --Robert Merkel

How can this be in dispute? Isn't it an obvious fact that the Internet increased the incidence of ALL types of pornography, and made it infintely easier for people to acquire? I can't imagine that there is any dispute about this. This, however, is a separate issue from whether the Internet has increased the number of people who want child pornographu; that is a different issue. I only claim that the Internet has made it more common and more accessible. RK

Try downloading kiddie porn from the net and see how long before the FBI or their equivalent are knocking on your door.

Uhm, I'm sorry, but this is incredibly naive. Now if you change downloading into uploading, your statement could at least begin to try to conform to reality, though it still would fail the check.

I won't even comment on the assumption that the FBI has any power over some Wikipedia contributor you don't know much about. --AV

As for the increased accessibility of pornography, have you ever visited a newsagent? For fsck's sake, you can buy Jenna Jameson videos and DVD's at the Virgin Megastore in Times Square. --Robert Merkel

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Would a list of newsgroups routinely carrying child and adolescent pornography be good enough? It's a plain fact that child pornography is available on the Internet, and before there was Internet, it was not available on the Internet. However you look at it, the appearance of a new medium with unparalleled distribution abilities must result in a rise in the incidence. In my opinion, your deletion was too hasty. --AV

It is inappropriate to lump together pornography and child porn in the same category. Two consenting adults having sex in front of a camera is not a crime; having sex with a 5 year old boy is a crime. Unless this differentiation is made, the entry will imply that all pornograohy is evil, and that all people who have seen adult moview are as bad as people who desire kiddie porn. Let us make the distinction extremely clear. RK]

Child porn is also category of porn, and distinction isn't really clear (for example are naked young girls a child or normal porn, in which age does it change from child to normal porn) ? Also it might be a crime now in some western countries, but that doesn't mean it is a general rule. For example in ancient Greece male teachers having sex with male students were not only allowed, but encouraged. Taw

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If your argument is that "kiddie porn, like all other porn, is now easier to obtain through the internet" why is is necessary to specifically mention it? Why not just say that "porn is now easier to obtain through the internet"? --Robert Merkel

Because kiddie porn is much harder to obtain through older channels; the Internet changed the balance. --AV

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In the Netherlands, is it legal for 16 year olds to act in pornographic movies and magazines? Also, what is the precise rule in the UK? --AxelBoldt

The exact rule in the UK is (if I remember correctly) that the material should not be likely to deprave or corrupt those who are likely to see it. Which could mean anything, of course. In practice, newsagents can sell soft porn, although erections are not allowed. (There is no rule against genitals being shown - the comment currently in the article is simply wrong.) Sex shops have openly sold hardcore magazines since about 1992. More recently, hardcore videos have started receiving certificates, so they can legally be sold in sex shops. I think some sex shops were openly selling hardcore videos before this, however. --Zundark, 2001 Oct 21

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Just the general observation that this article seems to focus almost entirely on visual pornography, without saying so. Distinctions such as hardcore vs softcore probably exist in written pornography too, but would have to be defined somewhat differently.

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Sorry for this rant, but it's a subject near and dear to my heart: on Greco-Roman phalloi - sure, Pompeii had whorehouses and pornographic art on the walls, but the big phalloi have little or nothing to do with that. If a tour guide told you that people in the middle ages believed the world was flat, would you .... Oh. That's right, most people believe that one, too. Please see Inventing the Flat Earth, Jeffrey Burton Russell, ISBN: 0275939561. Well, the phalloi weren't pointing you to the redlight district - they were pointing AT YOU so that you couldn't cast the Evil Eye on the occupants of the house. Mediterranean peoples still believe in the evil eye - ever seen an Italian man with a coral horn around his neck? His Roman ancestors wore phalloi. Same deal. Hold index finger and pinky out, other two fingers folded down; hold it in front of your chest; jab at ugly but probably harmless old woman and say "Avert!" For lots of pictures of Roman Phalloi and explanations of why mosaic pictures on the floors of Roman bathhouses of Africans with big penises has nothing to do with homosexual miscegnation, see John R. Clarke, Roman Black-and-White Figural Mosaics ISBN: 0814713769. (clarke has a great new book on Roman sexuality). Or, as Freud would have known if he had been a little better read in the classics, sometimes a penis is just a cigar. --MichaelTinkler

Gee, that was quite a rant. :-)

Seriously, though, I saw three of them on the streets of Pompeii, and they were all pointing directly at the same district where I saw the murals. And they weren't in front of houses but on the street corners. At least one was actually on a block in the middle of the street. The streets are lower than the sidewalks, and there are stepping stones so you can cross the street dry on a rainy day, with spaces between for wheels to travel. There's a picture (I don't know if it's one of the ones I saw) at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Metro/7707/trip3 about 3/4 of the way down.

So in short, I think in this particular case the phalluses were there to point to the red-light district, although I agree there were many other symbolisms. If you still think I'm wrong, feel free to change what I wrote, or move it to Pompeii. --Dmerrill

Sometimes a phallus is just a directional sign, eh? :-)

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I elided child pornography and mention that the net is interesting for consumers of all manners of porn that is illegal somewhere. No need to restrict it to that kind illegal in the US/Europe. --Robbe

I think the recent proliferation of child porn swapping networks is a significant development which should be mentioned. --AxelBoldt

My point is that the child porn trade is rising much slower than normal porn. Child porn was traded before the net existed. Semi-professional swap rings still prefer parcel post: safer and (for videos) cheaper ... I'm content with the current article status, though. --Robbe

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In most European countries hardcore pornography is shown on regular or pay-TV.

I believe that to be false. I know it to be false for Germany. Any other countries? Hardcore porn is available via satellite in the US, but not in Europe as far as I know. --AxelBoldt

There are a few in Europe. See, for example, this page (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/sat-erotica/xhardchannels). Selling cards for them is generally illegal in the UK, but I think the UK is fairly exceptional in this respect. --Zundark, 2001 Dec 4

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There is a whole feminist critique and style of pornography, and some Christian Fundamentalists and Marxist Lesbians who took it to some amusing extremes in the 1980s and 1990s. Also "In Praise of Pornography" and other works by ACLU and tribal feminist[?] types. And an entire critique of how *ALL COMMUNICATIONS MEDIA* seem to get their headstart from a desire to communicate about sex - part of a larger critique of media and capitalism as systems driven by sexual attraction to the detriment of ecological survival. Andrea Dworkin, Gloria Steinem[?], etc., need a mention here.

I agree, the positions of the various pro and con feminist factions should be mentioned, and religious reservations. The Canadian supreme court decision in which Dworkin was involved should be covered too. AxelBoldt