Talk:Engineering

Technology is the collection of state-of-the-art- techniques, knowledge etc on a certain subject.

• It's not just the state-of-the-art techniques, but all the techniques. When it first happened the invention of the wheel became a technology, and it still is.

Science is the (planned and unplanned) unbound exploration of knowledge about a specific subject under the axioms accepted in scientific community (e.g. show something repeatedly)

Engineering is the proper application of technology.

• Is "proper" essential to the definition?

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I always liked this informal definition: Once scientists discover the principles by which a bridge can be made, anybody can make bridge that will hold 100 tons. It takes a good engineer to make a bridge that will hold 100 tons, but that won't hold 110. --LDC

• With such a low tolerance above specifications you may be building another Galloping Gertie of Tacoma Narrows.

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It seems to me that this entry needs a lot more work. I'll try revising it later, but if someone wanted to take a look at it now... -- ansible

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Perhaps wikipedia needs an information engineer to deal with this subject.

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I may be blinded by scientists' prejudices on engineering, but is it really appropriate or accurate to describe the work of an engineer as application of the scientific method?!

• Well, in a broad sense, yes, I think so. However one has to be brutally honest to do so, and admit that an engineer assumes a certain fixed price per human life when setting safety standards, i.e. the "will hold 100 tons but will not hold 110", "recall the Pinto or not", etc. They will now be more likely to do that in skyscrapers after 9/11. The scientific method in this case is the correlation data that tells you what tolerances you're working with, and each artifact, e.g. bridge, or airplane, you build, is like an experiment. If and when it falls down, you learn something. The forensics are most obvious in air crashes... it's the full scientific method applied to that case and generalized to all aircraft of that model, pilots and mechanics of that airline, etc., and whatever they learn goes back into the building and maintenance process. That's the tightest engineering loop you're likely to see... except in the military where they do the same thing but put the price of the training of the crew and some nominal compensation (pensions paid to families) into the equation. So, more important than the method is the means of risk assessment...
• note also that software engineering "is" engineering in the sense of the scientific method and each service, i.e. online service whether processor is local or not, being an experiment, and "isn't" engineering in the sense of direct risk of bodily harm to the user, except in military applications or certain extreme civilian emergency response situations where life and death decisions are made by the software itself and the human must trust it completely... which ain't often.

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Any interest in articles about the History of Engineering? What I see this covering would include:

• Roman Engineering: the aqueducts, roads[?], sewer systems, the true or keystone arch.

• Cathedral construction

• The History of Fortifications[?]

• Pointers to articles on (e.g.) Vitruvius, Frontinus, Leonardo da Vinci, et cetra

• The making of Canals[?] (e.g., Roman, English, Eire Canal[?] & Panama Canal)

Just compiling this list, & testing the proposed links show some areas that need attention. -- llywrch 01:14 Nov 21, 2002 (UTC)

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I think a historical overview of engineering technology would be excellent. More detailed lengthy chapters could be spun off to articles as appropriate. user:mirwin

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Regarding the first sentence: "Engineering provides the plans to (re)produce, process, or control artifacts" However, engingeering does not necessarily deal with artifacts, it can deal with aspects of the natural world that would exist even if there were no humans. For example, you can engineer a systems to locate, catch and process fish from the sea. These fish, especially before being caught, aren't artifacts. So, I think the definition that engineering deals with artifacts is too restrictive. User:Ike9898

Agreed. I widened the definition slightly. I still don't like it, though. If I were starting from nothing, I would say something like "Engineering is the application of scientific knowledge and practical experience to the production or processing of useful objects." I put in the word "useful" to exclude artistic creation. Also, I prefer definitions that begin "X is..." rather than "X provides..." -- Heron

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I made some significant changes to the page, many based on 'talk-page' comments. I also added a bit about engineering as a profession and a little about margins of error. Please review and comment User:Ike9898