Talk:Auschwitz

How come no mention is made that the original figure put forth as the death toll was 4 million and has now been reduced to about 1.5 million thanks in no small part to the "revisionists"? Seems strange to me that in the last paragraph you seem to attempt to disparage the people whom you should be crediting.

Auschwitz is very old town, once cultural centre, capital of one of duchy.. I am hesistating on whether i shoudl moved all of this into Auschwitz exetrmination camp, and here instead put info on city of Auschwitz. szopen

Auschwitz is the town, so put information about the town here. However, the extermination camps is a important part of its history, so it should be mentioned and/or referenced. Just do it like you did with Treblinka. (I'm angry at myself for making such gross simplification wrt Treblinka.) --Yooden

However Auschwitz had really clear conotations in English, not like Treblinka. I was wondering maybe about Oswiecim entry about town, and Auschwitz about extermination camp. I mean, i don't like that name Auschwitz is nowadays associated only with death, but i am not sure if change similar to Treblinka in case of Auschwitz is justified...

Anyway, right now i have not any good informations about earlier history of Auschwitz, all i remmeber are some basic facts like that it was selled to polish kingdom by last prince of Auschwitz together with Zator and all mines nearby, and that protestants founded there some kind of school, If i am not mistaken... szopen

I see what you mean. So what about this: Once you have more information, make an entry for Oswiecim with all information, and prepend the Auschwitz entry with a synopsis and a reference to Oswiecim. (Auschwitz is the German name for Oswiecim, right?) --Yooden

I don't think that "tourist attraction" should be used while talking about place, where so many people were murdered. There is a wise phrase written in the museum in Oswiecim: "People, who forgot a tragedy, are convicted to experience it again" --swPawel

I agree the general tone should be soon rendered in a more respectful form; if we need to give a great attention to today's visitors, we could perhaps use a reference to "tourism" about that project (I don't know if it was completed - it was a few years ago) of opening a discotheque in front of the camps, and stress instead that human nature can be so pretty that there is also people who goes visiting the camps only to satisfy instincts that other people could also call insane, and in a spirit that might be better not to describe further.

About Arbeit macht frei, a native english speaking contributor might perhaps render with appropriate form, more than the geographical technical details of where people were entering, the general sense of insult that the sign could represent, which is the main reason why we remember it. I know it wasn't in the author's intentions, but by paradox it seems as if the sign was... "innocent" (I omit the following question).

The modern image of Auschwitz never actually existed as such risks to appear as a funny espression...

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Note that discoteque was not in front of camp. It was outside the protection zone. As one guy i met on usenet said, it seems that some people want to have protection zone around the protection zone. Or to evacuate whole damn town and leave only cemeteries.

Remember, whole Poland is cemetery. It is hard to find place where Nazis haven't murdered someone. But life must go on. szopen

It was described on the newspapers as very close, and the fact of being close to it _meant_ as a feature, in the sense that going to dance in front of camps was its principal special offer. Yes, in front of camps' area, this is how it was described - now we can start a debate about journalists, about correctness in information, whatever you like, but this what I read, on papers from different countries. I however take your point that it wasn't there (and sincerely I thank you for your note); the debate anyhow was started from something, I presume.

Of course life must go on, but memories too deserve to be respected, specially in a place that is so much symbolic today beacause it has been so little symbolic and too much real in the past. I don't think a discotheque is going to open in the next future at Ground Zero, as well.

Life _goes_ on. I live in Rome, where so many places may have similar symbolic contents (in smaller proportions, obviously, but still important), and I can see people in the streets living and enjoying life because life goes on; nevertheless I don't see anyone trying to open an entertainment business in the proximity of any sybolic place right _because_ of this vicinity, or people frequenting it _because_ of this nearness. Are we a lucky people in a lucky place or is it perhaps that there are things that need attention in any culture, at any latitude, beyond any ideology?

So, this doesn't mean at all that whole Poland should be "protected" or that I would like to put the nation under a glass bell, it is not in my words because it is not in my mind; you are perhaps better able that anyone else here to tell us instead about the many camps in your country that nobody is aware of, as nobody is aware of italian camps (let's say just San Sabba, Trieste) and we all just think of Auschwitz to identify in it the whole tragedy; not to make a desert around any or each of these places of terror, but I think can we leave just a symbolic place to stand up alone, representing the many, for the respect of manhood, which is made of the sum of the single respects by anyone of us, starting from us here and passing through the respect of discotheque owners. And for the memory. I don't know if it is correct to be that "iconic", but I am afraid it would be worse if we weren't even that, at least.

On another field, I am not so worried about the discotheque, I am sad about the fact that very likely there would be customers. If so, you might "protect" anything you like, the problem will not be solved, they'd move to another sad but not protected place. And I already said the worse aspect of all is this insane curiosity that makes it seem as if there is a touristic business, a sort of Disneyland in black, that I do hope for general reasons Auschwitz (and Poland) is not.

I am sincerelly sorry if you read in my words something unrespectful for Poland, it wasn't at all in my intentions. I am sure that your country, in its entirety and locally, has no interest in making money from holocaust. I am sure Wikipedia will (respectfully) render this too.

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I do not understand this sentence: "Several authors have criticised the historical inaccuracies perpetrated upon Auschwitz [...]" It sounds a bit like Colorless green ideas sleep furiously to me. Can an innaccuracy be perpetrated?

Perhaps some elaboration is necessary to, because we don't know what innacuracies these are.--branko

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About 700 prisoners have attempted to escape from Auschwitz over the years

I don't know if the author really intended what this implies in English: that Auschwitz is still around as a prison. Perhaps you mean: about 700 prisoners attempted to escape the Auschwitz concentration camps or something like that? DanKeshet

I'm assuming the latter was intended. I've tweaked it a bit; how does it sound now? --Brion

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I have a question about Auschwitz II (Birkenau). The jews and gypsies who were not murdered right away lived in the camp. I would like to know what kind of work they had to do every day. If anybody knows, or has a reference work to look it up, I'd appreciate it. I tried usenet, but no answer. Thanks, AxelBoldt

I'll try to find something. Axel as a native German can you please say a few words about feelings of todays Germans of a such terrible thing from their past. I am sometimes also quite ashamed for my own nation too. There was no such camps as Auschwitz was on a teritory of Slovenia but some bad things also happend during nation's history (for instance terrible war crimes of Slovene traitors against Slovene patriols during the 2nd World War) or postwar crimes of official goverment against enemy's colaborators in 1940s. I must also say that my auntie came from Auschwitz in 1946 weighting a good 30 kg and died in the same year. Some say that these things must never repeat again, but Serb camps from 1990s like Omarska disprove this. How the mankind can protect itself from happening such things? Are we all the rat race in the end as Robert Nesta Marley sung or the dreads of society from Burning Spear's whoops ... Best regard and respect. --XJamRastafire 16:07 Sep 20, 2002 (UTC)

Well, I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of Germans are shocked and deeply ashamed by the Holocaust, and still struggle to understand it. How it could have happened? Was it ordered from above or did people enthusiastically participate? It's an ongoing debate. Many Germans see the Holocaust as a defining moment in German history and have therefore very ambivalent feelings towards their own nation. AxelBoldt 03:05 Sep 21, 2002 (UTC)

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Why is this page listed in the "In the news" section on the Main Page? --mav

See Current events. --Eloquence 10:06 31 May 2003 (UTC)

Probably because George Bush is visiting it today. Thanks the Poles for their war support, and simultaneously snubs the French by reducing the time he'll spend in France. But unless he says something surprising, it doesn't sound like much actual news will be made there... -- Someone else 10:08 31 May 2003 (UTC)

I knew that - my question was why this article is in the "In the news" section since there is no mention of the current event in this article. --mav

Many Americans will probably hear about Auschwitz for the first time when they see on CNN that Bush visits that place. The idea is to provide a background article so that they know what this is about. But if you want to enforce a policy that all articles listed on the Main Page have to cover the event in question, then Auschwitz should not be listed, because it obviously does not meet this condition. --Eloquence 10:26 31 May 2003 (UTC)

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I'm a little confused - the article says that the gas chambers at A I didnt survive the war intact but did the ones at A II? PMelvilleAustin 17:12 5 Jun 2003 (UTC)

No they did not; they were blown up by the Nazis. You can walk around in the ruins. AxelBoldt 22:19 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)