Talk:Origin of life

Could you add a note that this controversy exists almost only in US ? Even worse fundamentalists in Europe don't deny evolution. --Taw

Taw - I don't think that is true. My assessment would be that controversy exists almost everywhere in the world, it is only most pronounced in the US. I'd like to see some numbers that verify your claim. - MMGB

Numbers:

 0 - number of publically known people in Poland who reject evolution

I suspect results will be similar in other European countries. --Taw

OK - I went and got my own numbers. According to Planet Project (a UN research project) around 15-20% of Europeans ascribe to some form of creationist thought, and another site [1] (http://www.geocities.com/fedor_steeman/Europe) says this is roughly evenly divided between biblical creationism and the "intelligent design" flavours. Christian groups successfully had evolution removed from the Dutch educational curriculum (for final exams) in the mid-90's, however this was reversed shortly afterwards. Specific numbers for various countries are also presented at [2] (http://www.geocities.com/fedor_steeman/Europe). You can view the Planet Project Survey at [3] (http://www.planetproject.com/en/adult/) - go to "Religion, Beliefs and Fears", question 15.

Oh and Taw - Poland has one of the highest rates of creationist belief for any European country - 34%. - MMGB

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I'm going to delete this page entirely. Ed, the spectrum of belief here is not reducible to the simplistic two or three schools into which you'd like to divide it. The whole idea is nothing but your personal opinion, and has no place in an encyclopedia meant to educate people about the world as a whole. If you'd like to engage in discussion of these issues to clarify them in your own mind, there are plenty of places on the net for that. But this is an encyclopedia, not a discussion group. We're supposed to report on established mainstream beleifs and widely-held minority beliefs, but not any one man's personal opinion. --Lee Daniel Crocker

It's not entirely my idea, it's based on the Gallup Poll which (I believe) you dug up after I mentioned it. I have been attempting to remove bias from several articles; some of the time this means giving more attention to something I myself believe, other times I have softened claims that something (which I believe) is fact. I continue to appreciate the guidance of those with more wiki experience, and I do realize that my own bias is hard for me to see, but I do accept the wiki NPOV standard. No doubt I will discover that many things I thought I knew were merely my own opinion. --Ed Poor

OK, so it's your opinion and Mr. Gallup's. But it's still an overly simplistic division of a very complex field that deserves better treatment. This has nothing at all to do with how much attention is given to each idea: if you want to write 20 pages on ID, its proponents, its theories, etc., more power to you. But you have to be very careful when describing what others believe. ID certainly exists, and that's why it should be mentioned in these articles, along with dozens of other beliefs. But to blindly state that the whole field can be neatly carved up into A, B, and C is simply false. --LDC

Falsifiable, you mean :-) Here's an example: Everyone in the world either (A) always divides things into 2 categories, (B) never divides them into 2 categories, or (C) does it one way or another from time to time. --Ed Poor

Old contents:

The three main ideas explaining the origin of life are:

a. The Theory of Evolution

New species came into being over millions of years. Natural processes are sufficient to account for this.

b. Intelligent Design

New species came into being over millions of years. Natural processes alone cannot account for this.

c. Sudden Creationism

God created all forms of life around 6,000 years ago, pretty much as they are today.

The accepted scientific view is the theory of evolution, i.e., the neo-Darwinian synthesis. (Only a tiny minority of scientists depart from the accepted view.)

Religions which adhere to Sudden Creationism[?] reject evolution entirely, although some denominations of Christianity recognize that some sort of evolution took place. See Christian views on evolution[?].

Recently, Intelligent Design has been formulated in an attempt to bridge the gap between faith and science.

It's hardly recent - the notion of ID has been around since at least the time of Newton and probably before. The specific case of "God handles the genetic variations" is just a new twist on a very old theme. I suspect that the Gallup poll referred to reflects the more general idea of ID than the "genetic" version you are presenting, Ed.- MMGB

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LDC - I'm going to throw some weight in with you on this. I do believe that the topic "Origin of Life Explanations" (or something similarly named) deserves to exist, being a broad and linking page that present the many various theories as to how life emerged. But the rather restricted (and Americo-centric) view that Ed presented is not fair coverage. Also, the article would need to acknowlege the "no origin" explanations that come from hinduism and buddhism - where the universe and life just has "always been".

Taw - I'd like to see some numbers that support your assertion that Europeans reject creationism so extensively - I suspect (hope!) that the percentage is substantially less than in the USA, but ther would still be a significant number. - MMGB

Numbers:

 0 - number of publically known people in Poland who reject evolution

I suspect results will be similar in other European countries. --Taw

Taw - please be serious. You opinions do not constitute fact. :) For starters, the "British Biblical Creation Society" has a very prominent website and publishes a quarterly magazine, so there are at least some Europeans who subscribe to creationism. - MMGB

Manning: I'd agree with you, contra Taw, that there certaintly are some European creationists, but I suspect there are a lot fewer than in America, and the public pays a lot less attention to them than in America. I also suspect that the UK probably has significantly more creationists than continental Europe, due to the common language with the US. (Ireland also uses mostly English, but its mostly Catholic, and the Catholic church is pro-evolution.) -- SJK

SJK - I found some hard numbers - I am writing them up right now. PS - why are you up so early? I got a call from my fiance (who cannot calculate time differences) - what's your excuse? - cheers MB

Up early? I haven't been to bed! BTW, where is your fiance? -- SJK

Lucy is in Scotland - have you never read my personal page? :) - MMGB

Now you mention it, I remember. I'd just forgotten. Too little sleep. :)

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I think the creation article already makes some very fragmentary mention of different views on the origin of life, though more in the context of the origin of the universe in general. Also, I think Hindus believe the universe to be eternal but also believe life to be created -- the universe is cyclic, and all life is destroyed at the end of one cycle to be created anew at the beginning of the next. -- SJK